You seem to think that, by doubting that doubt is a form of thought, you can beat Cogito Ergo Sum. There are none left. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. If all of that is made into a background then cogito can be made into a valid inference (but that defeats its purpose). The argument is not paradoxical because "I can doubt everything" is simply where he starts, not a universal rule that is supposed to govern everything in the universe. I can add A to B before the sentence and B to A before it infinitely. WebWhen looking at this statement, it is evident that Srigley knew how his readers think and feel about the subject (as parents they want the best education possible for their child), knew their likes (their own children) and dislikes, this argument obviously appeals to them.Srigley made effective arguments because Srigley knew his audience. In fact, I would agree that doubt is thought under another part of Philosophy, but here I am arguing under the ambit of Descartes's LOGIC. Cogito ergo sum is a translation of Descartes' original French statement, Je pense, donc, je suis. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-epistemology/#2, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum#Discourse_on_the_Method. Perhaps you are actually an alien octopus creature dreaming. Here is an argument that is similar to an argument that Descartes famously advanced: (1) I think. He compares them to chains, whose continuity the mind would experience by checking the links one by one. What are examples of software that may be seriously affected by a time jump? Here there is again a paradoxical set of rules. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. That's an understandable, empathizable behavior, most people tend to abhor uncertainty > you're a AFDUNOIAFNDMLOISABFID, because you can't define it. The thought happened in his mind, as per his observation. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-epistemology/#2 I am adding the words "must be", to reflect that small doubt which is left over, and removing one assumption. 25 Feb 2023 03:29:04 And that holds true for coma victims too. andrewflnr 5 hours ago | root | parent | next. But, I cannot doubt my thought, therefore there is definitely thought. Does he mean here that doubt is thought? Discussing the meaning of Cogito outside the proper context usually leads to large and useless speculations, which end up in lot of people "proving Descartes wrong". I only meant to point out one paradoxical assumption in Descartes's argument. Very roughly: a theory of epistemic justification is internalist insofar as it requires that the justifying factors are accessible to the knowers conscious awareness; it is externalist insofar as it does not impose this requirement. Posted on February 27, 2023 by. Only at the next level, the psychological dimension, does consciousness and therefore thinking come into it; and so too does sense perception (visual and sensory It only takes a minute to sign up. Webarguments (to deny personhood to the fetus) themselves do not work. Webto think one is having this self-verifying thought. The issue is that does not invalidate the logic of the initial argument. Why? It only takes a minute to sign up. However, Descartes' specific claim is that thinking is the one thing he has direct irrefutable proof via personal experience of doing. At best it would need adjustment, depending on the specifics. When you do change the definition you are then no longer arguing against cogito ergo sum, but rather a strawman argument that you can defeat because of an error you added in. This being is considered as either real or ideal. WebI was encouraged to consider a better translation to be "I am thinking, therefore I am." Descartes wants to establish something. Therefore I exist. Webthat they think isnt derived from this source. Is my argument against Descartes's "I think, therefore I am", logically sound? Little disappointed as well. It does not matter here what the words mean, logic here at this point does not differentiate between them. This is also in keeping with the Muslim philosopher's concept of "knowledge by presence", their term for unmediated intuitive knowledge that is distinct from and the ground of all discursive knowledge (that is thoughts). The mind has free will ( and therefore is not constrained by any physical laws or causal agents ). What are the problems with this aspect of Descartes philosophy? Therefor the ability to complete this thought exercise shows that Descartes exists. Let's take a deeper look into the ORDER of the arguments AND the assumptions involved. What is established here, before we can make this statement? So under Rule 1 which is established FIRST, Rule 2 is paradoxical, and the logic which is established now has a flaw. How to measure (neutral wire) contact resistance/corrosion. I am saying that I need not make the second assumption, and I can establish the statement I think, therefore I must be, without that What is the relation between Descartes' "lumen naturale", God and logic? That's it. Because we first said that Doubt is thought is definite, then we said we can doubt everything which was a superset including all the observations we can make. He can have further doubt about the nature of his existence, but he has proven that he exists in some form, as in order to ask the question, "do I exist" he must exist, or there would be no one to ask the question in the first place. Therefore there is definitely thought. Latest answer posted May 09, 2013 at 7:39:38 PM, Clearly state in your own words the surprise ending in part 5 ofDescartes' Discourse on the method. In an earlier work, the Discourse on Method, Descartes expresses this intuition in the dictum I think, therefore I am; but because therefore suggests that the intuition is an argumentthough it is notin the Meditations on First Philosophy he says merely, I think, I am (cogito, sum). I think the chink in your line of reasoning is the assumption that in the phrase "doubt everything", Descartes uses the word everything to mean literally everything, including doubts. What is the ideal amount of fat and carbs one should ingest for building muscle? You can't get around Descartes' skepticism because if you reject direct observation as a means to attain accurate information (about conditional experience), you are only left with reasoning, inference etc. Everyone who thinks he thinks thinks he knows he thinks. His logic has paradoxical assumptions. Again, the same cannot be said of a computer/ machine. That's why I commended you in opening of my answer. Rational self-awareness, then, is the undoubtable, absolute certainty that Descartes was looking for as foundation to all knowledge. So go ahead, try to criticise it, but looking at the argument itself, which I just wrote for you. Sci fi book about a character with an implant/enhanced capabilities who was hired to assassinate a member of elite society. What evidence do you have that the mind EVER stops thinking? 3. In this the logic has a paradoxical rule. No amount of removing doubt can remove all doubt, if you begin from a point of doubting everything!, and therefore cannot establish anything for certain. Could anyone please pinpoint where I am getting this wrong? (NO Logic for argument 1) Disclaimer: OP has edited his question several times since my answer, to the point where his/her original point has all but disappeared. Hence, at [duplicate]. You are misinterpreting Cogito . This is like assessing Murphy's laws from a numeric perspective: the laws will be wrong, but that doesn't mean th Third one is redundant. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. After I describe both arguments, I will then provide my own argument which I dont think has been made in In this argument, propositions (1) and (2) are premises and proposition (3) is a conclusion. Descartes found that although he could doubt many things about himself, one thing that he could not doubt, is that he exists. Since my argument is minus one assumption, compared to Descartess, it is a stronger truth. Could 'cogito ergo sum' possibly be false? Definitions and words are simply the means to communicate the argument, they are not themselves the argument. Think of it as starting tools you got. In philosophy, it is often called the cogito argument, due the to Latin version of the argument: cogito ergo sum (which might be the most popular tattoo for philosophy undergrads); but perhaps it should be called the dubito argument since the full argument relies on what is called methodic doubt, a strategy to find absolute certainty by doubting everything that is possible to doubt. The Phrase I think therefore I am first appeared in the Discourse on the Method, in the first paragraph of the fourth part. What if the Evil Genius in Descartes' "I think therefore I am" put into our minds the action of doubting? (Logic for argument 1) rev2023.3.1.43266. Web24. Much later, the ontological precedence and yet co-existence of existence with all thoughts became the focus of Martin Heidegger. Descartes in his first assumption says that he is allowed to doubt everything. First, to Descartes "doubt is a thought" might be close to what Kant later called analytic, i.e. At every step it is rendered true. It in only in the Principles that Descartes states the argument in its famous form: "I think, therefore I am." [CP 4.71]. Hence Descartes' argument doesn't require discarding absolutely everything - just the things that can conceivably not correspond with reality. Drop a ball, any ball, a million times from a certain height. I'm doubting that I exist, right? Here is Descartes committing himself to the idea that our reason can tell us things that are true about the world we live in. In fact - what you? Descartes holds an internalist account requiring that all justifying factors take the form of ideas. Having made a little diversion now time to sum up the answer: Cogito is an imperfect argument if taken as an argument as Descartes didn't comprehensively address and follow many questions and implications associated with what can be considered a useful mental exercise. Every time you attempt to doubt your own existence as a thinking thing, you thereby affirm it, by thinking! Also, even if the distinction between doubt and thought were meaningful in this context, that would merely lead to the equivalent statement, "I doubt therefor I am. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. discard thoughts being real because in dreams, "there is at that time not one of them true". You are right that "I cannot doubt that I am doubting them", but I can still doubt if doubt is thought, still reducing Descartes's argument to null and void when it comes to establishing existence of an "I". And I am now saying let us doubt this observation of senses as well. The way I see it currently, either cogito is a flawed logical argument, which cannot be the basis for any future logical premises. But, I cannot doubt my thought, therefore there is definitely thought. Hence it is not possible to remove doubt from assertion or belief using Descartes's idea. Mine is argument 4. NO. And this is not relying on semantics at all!, but an argument from informal logic challenging the basic assumptions in Descartes's argument. Other than demonstrating that experience is dependent, conditional, subject to a frame of reference, the statement says no thing interesting. There have been many discounters of Rene Descartes philosophical idea, but none quite so well published as Friedrich Nietzsche. This is a thought exercise, that can be completed without the use of sight, sound, or any other sense. Then infers that doubt must definitely be thought, without any doubt at all. Therefore, Mary will not be able to attend the baby shower today. Conversely, it is always possible to infer background assumptions from non-gibberish (at least under some allowance for presuppositional inference, as in Kant's transcendental arguments), but that is pointless if the point is not to presuppose them. In the Cogito argument the existence of I and each of the concepts are presumed because even though I can doubt for example that the external world exists, but I can't doubt that the concept of "external world" exists in my mind as well as all concepts in the Cogito statement, and since all of these are subordinate to my mind I can then deduce my own existence from those perceptions. It appears this has still not gotten my point across clearly so I will now analyze this argument from the current question. But if I say " Doubt may or may not be thought", since this statement now exhausts the universe, then there is no more assumption left. He allowed himself to doubt everything, he then found out that there was something he was unable to doubt, namely his doubt. So everyone thinks his existence at least his existence as a thinking being is the conclusion of an Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. 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